April 08, 2008

A Fantastic debate with Lee Herrington upon Tibet Riot

Lee Herrington£¬a lovely person who has much ideas on Tibet Human Right, and we got a great talking regarding to the issue, now I posted below as sharing for everyone: 

Yuan Xu

Do not think China by the westrn logic, do not use westrn standard upon China, Tibetan is belong to China, just like the scotland for UK, It is China¡¯s business, westrn was unauthorized to interrupt the affair, so please shut up.

Anyway, please notice the people who require the independent of North Ireland about 16 years before, they use the similar methods (protest, riot, burning)to let the world heard their voice, unfortunately, UK government crackdown the riot and entitle the rioters as ¡¡ãterriosts¡¡À, how shameless! so why UK doesn¡¯t allow Scotland free? actually more than 51% scottish want to be independent actually, So this is the democracy and human right you are proud of?

Lee Herrington

oh i do love it when someone like Yuan Xu writes such fantastic rhetoric as seen above.

1. Tibetan is belong to china
2. Westrn was unauthorized to interrupt the affair so please shut up
3. Please notice the people who require the independant of North Ireland
4. Why doesnt UK allow Scotland free actually 51% scottish want to be independant actually
5. So this is the democracy and human right you are proud of?

Normally i just delete posts that do not contribute anything to the discussion but the above is so far of the mark i think some enlightenment is surely needed.

Firstly Tibet does not ¡®belong to China¡¯ anymore than Ireland belongs to the UK. Tibet declared it¡¯s independence from China in 1911 only for China to reclaim Tibet in a violent invasion in 1949. A do not want to dwell on this point for two long for fear of attracting free Palestine commenter¡¯s who would have me writing all night long. Countries invade other countries, that is how it has always been. If China wants to ¡®own¡¯ Tibet then nobody is going to stop them and nobody here in this debate has actually said China should get out of Tibet, a point that Yuan would know, had he read the post and subsequent comments properly.

As far as I am aware the West has not interrupted the abuse of human rights in Tibet because they are still going on. I don¡¯t recall reading about the deployment of UN peacekeepers in Tibet the last time I checked.

Third point with respect to Northern Ireland is that what happened there is a stain on British History just as much as Tibet is a stain on the history of China. Again there is nobody here standing up and saying the West does not commit human rights abuses, however, when they do, then the people in the West are the first to get out and protest. May I point Yuan to the protests in London by the British people just before the invasion of Iraq and ask him why there were no such protests in Beijing?

Scotland has it¡¯s own parliament and its own SMP¡¯s. If you had taken the time to do some research Yuan you would find that the process of devolution in Scotland started in 1997 just four months after the general election. You can read more about it here http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/scotland_and_devolution.htm

Lastly, on the issue of human rights in the West, again I would ask Yuan to point out where in any of the comments made here today has anyone said that we are proud of the democracy and human rights record of the West? I say whenever human rights are infringed I will speak up and right now I am speaking up against China.

Yuan Xu

I really quite interested in argue with you, Dear Lee.
Follow the above five points which you mentioned, I think like this:

1, There is make no sense regarding whether tibet belong to China, because the history literature will tell you tibet submited to China since Tang dynasty, when England have not unifed yet, just released from  governance of Roman Empire. and UK government inlcude all countries in the world, they all admit that tibet belong to China. Consequently, the issue could be help me to prove tibet is a affair of China, also China has the dominion claim for tibet. But western nowadays is supporting rioter and encourage tibet be a independent country, such a ridiculous!!! pls remember your are support a area which going to split up form China actually, the non helpful for so-called "human right", the rioter want independent.

2, So the second points will be easy to answer, there is no need a such like UN peacekeepers to investigate in tibet, because I believe that any normal country will not welcome the UN's investigation, only the country, which unable to  govern itself well, need peacekeepers. The "interruption" in my meaning, which refer to the westrn world has played the role that they should not play in the tibet issue, your attention level has already beyond the normal thrid party countries did 

3, well done, I'm so glad to hear you admit the North Ireland issue is the stain in UK history,  firstly I gonna answer your question "why there were no such protests in Beijing?"

How do you know 100% no such protests in Beijing or even around other place of China? How much you know the Chinese people think regarding to Iraq War? Chinese culture is such a different way compared with west, firstly, we don't like to comment other countries affairs like westrn countries did. Moreover, Iraq war is the fact that west counties rudely invaded a sovereign state through so-called "west human right standard" and imaginary "bio-chemistry weapon" what US troop is still looking for so far.

please remember China is not Iraq! and please think what UK goverment did in North Ireland issue, Did the protest saved the human lifes?

4, Actually, I admits Scotland owns its own parliament and relative rights, so do you mind give them free in the later three or four years? because UK government has given them enough right which even enough to be a sovereign, just go aheah! then China may follow UK to free tibet.

below linkage is about how pasion for scottish to be a independent country:

Furthermore, I need to point out "Chinese government is ever respect to culture of tibet, as the same as other nationalities in China, and centre government give tibet people to govern tibet area, also they have more welfare for jobseeking, education and so on, for example, If the tibet student might be entry high eduction or famous university with relative lower mark compared with Han students. Also, please don't believe the books, such like "seven years in Tebit", it is bullshit, the book record one million tibet people was killed by Chinese Army, How ridiculous!!! By the end of 2000, tibet only got 2.62 million people, backwards to 50 years ago, 1 million even equal to 2/3 the population in Tibet.   see http://www.unescap.org/esid/psis/population/database/chinadata/tibet.htm

5, So why the west like to force the your human right standard upon other countries? your supporting is encouraging the rioter kill more Chinese people in order to claim the indenpend, and no any improvement on human rights, the westrn voice has been take advantage of rioter to add stress on Chinese government just before Olympic game. The rioter wanna more actually

Thanks Mathew for adding the some his point for North Ireland Terrorister

Mathew Mannion

I should also point out that Northern Irish terrorists weren¡¯t called terrorists for peacefully protesting, they were called terrorists for bombing civilian targets in the UK.

Cases in point:

Some of these in England, mostly in Northern Ireland, from both republicans and unionists, all atrocities, none of them hidden from the general British public. These were terrorists.

Yuan Xu

To: Mathew Mannion

Tibet rioter also do the same, they beat and killed citizens, burn the shps, one family (5 people was burned by rioter), the only different is North Ireland terriost set the bomb by stealthily, but tibet rioters openly kill people and burn the city

see video http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi?redirect=fs.stm&news=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nol_storyid=7307633

What Flag those guys handle£¿ That is China Telecom¡®s logo£¬Do you think they know Tibet in depth£¿ Photobucket

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