April 17, 2006


Damien Green, the Conservative MP, is on BBC News 24 at the moment speaking about the apparent rise of the BNP in the local elections. But rather than take a united multilateral stance on the racist idiots, he seems to be using the story for personal gain.

He reckons that the BNP are doing well in Labour-dominated areas, because of the failings of local Labour-governed councils.

Wrong. The BNP are doing well in those constituencies because the Conservatives are so completely out of the electoral equation there that there is room for the BNP to compete! A BNP voter is much more likely to have something in common with traditional Conservatives than with the Labour councils which Green blames for the BNP's rise.

Regardless, he seemed very petty to be trying to make political capital out of the situation which is bad news for all parties.

- 32 comments by 2 or more people Not publicly viewable

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  1. So youre having a go at Green for not being 'multilateral' in his stance on racists and instead placing responsibility on Labour controlled councils – then you are blaiming the rise of the BNP on tory ineptitude in appealing to the wider electorate. How thoughtful.

    Look Green was taking advantage but his thoughts were not unfounded. BNP are contesting mostly deprived urban wards the majority of which are Labour controlled. I think is the fault of all three mainstream parties for not addressing the real issues of some working class communities in Britain which is leading to BNP gains. With the Labour government in power – not facilitating the creation of more private sector employment opportunities in deprived areas by tax breaks, enterprise zones or otherwise and having a previously shambolic immigration policy, racial tensions have increased over the last 8 years. The BNP take advantage. What did they honestly expect?
    Let's not overstate this though the BNP will always be on the fringes in most peoples eyes.

    17 Apr 2006, 13:36

  2. Actually rather worryingly the BNP are contesting nearly every ward in Coventry this spring.

    17 Apr 2006, 13:38

  3. If being ‘completely out of the electoral equation’ means the party no longer appeals to racists, then hurrah! Far from being an indictment of the Conservatives, Green would consider it a very good thing that those people must today go elsewhere to pursue their agenda. I don’t know the detail of the Labour policies he’s talking about, but failure of the BNP to support them doesn’t indicate they’re actually of net benefit. Bad policy should be highlighted as such. Throwing mud at a party with an already less than stellar reputation doesn’t address why they’re gaining popularity in the first place.

    17 Apr 2006, 13:39

  4. davy

    Actually, you're wrong – a BNP voter is much more likely to have voted Labour in the past.

    White, working class, Labour voters are more likely to be racist than white, middle class, Conservative voters. Thats why Labour is so worried.

    17 Apr 2006, 13:41

  5. Peter, I wasn't deliberately blaming the Tories for being out of the electoral equation – I'm only referring there to the urban constituencies in which the Tories have never really factored, which isn't their fault. I don't think the Tories failing to appeal to the wider electorate is anything to do with 'ineptitude' – it's a deliberate decision about how best to achieve electoral success while keeping to certain core values.

    Davy – your electoral thinking doesn't include the white, working class Conservative voters, without whom the Tories would never have got into power. The fact they lost many of them in 1997 swung that election and the next two as well. I'd say there are as likely to now vote for the BNP as the traditional Labour working class voters, who have become disaffected with that party.

    17 Apr 2006, 13:48

  6. Where's the evidence that the BNP gets proportionally more votes from the "working classes" than the "middle classes"?
    A key issue is that people in less skilled jobs are more likely to face stiff competition for work and housing from immigrants than people in more skilled jobs. The BNP exploits this and tries to turn a wish for protectionism into racism.

    18 Apr 2006, 19:53

  7. Peter Thomas wrote:

    Actually rather worryingly the BNP are contesting nearly every ward in Coventry this spring.

    Fact is they are standing in 7 of the 18 wards. The socialists are standing in 5 wards – but of course left wing parties won't get much publicity. The media is far more interested in race based parties. See link

    18 Apr 2006, 20:07

  8. Okay i retract that – old information i had suggested as many as 15.

    18 Apr 2006, 21:11

  9. James

    George's post raises an interesting point as a sideline. Why is it that the hard core communist parties never get bad press like the BNP? I noticed that in the French elections, when Le Pen did well. The same percentage of the vote that he got was achieved by all of the communists put together. Communism did more damage last century than Facism, yet the press seem to ignore or sympathise with them.

    20 Apr 2006, 11:24

  10. Christopher Rossdale

    Communists, socialists and the like don't tend to support much of what happened in Soviet Russia (which was not communist, let's remember!) It is not an ideology based on hatred, fear and oppression, but on fairness and equality – even if you dispute the ideology, the difference in moral positioning is fairly key.
    The reason it's kept out of the news so much is that when people really start to think about it, get past the fact that russia was never what communism, socialism or any other left-wing ideal is really trying to achieve, and look at the issues, they might realise that it's not actually a bad idea: particularly those in working class areas where opportunities and living standards are poor (as opposed to warwick uni and it's fairly privelaged base).

    20 Apr 2006, 11:41

  11. Hero

    Um actually there are two types of white working class, the racist conservative voters (the ones that elected and kept Thatcher and successors in power) and the socialist left-wing ones who are usually for ethnic monirities as members of the working class, but who may be 'naively' racist in their personal opinions.

    What Chris says is right, traditional racist white working class voters saw the Conservatives as most likely to be anti-immigrant, and right wing (doesnt anybody remember Michael Howard as home secretary??).

    The conservatives are pretty rubbish now, and at best are soft Blairites. With the BNP overtly racist, and the conservatives promoting ethnic candidates and female candidates, the 'true' white racist will see them as a better protest vote.

    20 Apr 2006, 11:45

  12. The conservatives… at best are soft Blairites.

    That would be because Blair has conceded full-scale old Labour left-wing policies were largely inefficient, unworkable and unaffordable, and is using some centre-right Conservative strategies in an attempt to shore up centre-left social and financial policies. Basically, Blair is a conservative rather than the other way around.

    20 Apr 2006, 12:41

  13. James comment at number 9 has got to be the stupidest thing I've read on blogs since I saw so many swallow the whole Iran thing.

    20 Apr 2006, 16:33

  14. If you take comment 4 and comment 11 and substitute the name of an ethnic group for the phrase "white working class", people would be complaining about sweeping generalisations even racism.

    But these days it's cool to mock the lower classes, the unenlightened ones.

    20 Apr 2006, 18:50

  15. James Black

    Here Here

    20 Apr 2006, 23:17

  16. I think you seem to misunderstand what's going on here, people don't just vote for the BNP because they are racist. Infact I would suggest that most people could find at least one of their policies which they would agree with. If people feel strongly enough about that policy then they might vote in an attempt to make the main parties consider implementing it. I'm against racism because it creates both disorder in the form of crime/ criminal damage and because it harms our country economically. Personally I would like to see my party (the conservatives – I'm a card carrying member) adopt a policy to bring back the death penalty. The BNP is the only party which I am aware of who are proposing this… so will I vote for them in the hope that maybe my party considers why I and others like me voted that way and maybe adopt it? Honestly I don't think so, but it could be a rational choice to make, possibly giving my vote far more significance than it might have… the main thing which stops me is that the BNP suggested that every home should have a gun which I am totally against. The same is true with the racist elements, although I honestly don't think that any serious party would adopt it… but don't write off all BNP voters as mindless racists.

    22 Apr 2006, 13:31

  17. The same is true with the racist elements, although I honestly don't think that any serious party would adopt it

    Eh, what logic leads you to believe that? True a party absorbed into the political mainstream might not want to alienate mainstream voters, but the BNP are a long way away from that.

    "Serious" parties have flirted with borderline racism in the past, such as the shameless way both labour and the tories have used immigration to boost their own popularity. I hardly think the BNP would suddenly betray the racist principles on which they were founded.

    I'm against racism because it creates both disorder in the form of crime/ criminal damage and because it harms our country economically

    How about the reason that it's an utterly loathsome thing?

    22 Apr 2006, 15:37

  18. The BNP is the only party which I am aware of who are proposing [reintroducing the death penalty] so will I vote for them in the hope that maybe my party considers why I and others like me voted that way and maybe adopt it?

    I imagine that even the BNP has managed to work out more than half a dozen different policies. How, then, is any proper political party meant to know which one or multiple policies you would be supporting if you voted BNP?

    You're a card-carrying member of a mainstream political party: the reason parties have large-scale membership systems is to allow people to influence policy. This is hardly achieved by voting for a minority party whose primary association is with racism.

    22 Apr 2006, 16:15

  19. Welcome to politics. Have you never watched Newsnight or something?

    22 Apr 2006, 21:45

  20. hero

    The thing is that white, english-speaking workling class people are intentionally unenliughtened. I have an in come lower than the average working class male, but I make use of libraries, the internet, radio, quality newspapers, etc etc. I also went to a largely working-class school, and had the same teachers but you don't find me talking about raping rag-heads, and spitting in the street, nor do I like football.

    What characterises the working class is not a lack of intelligence, but a deliberate fear of using it. This is because the working class are mixed with all the real thickies.

    Interestingly, the working class seem to have more babies.. how can a class/culture that is no longer needed be succeeding in evolutionary terms… mind you I suppose rabbits are pretty stupid compared to foxes,,,,,


    24 Apr 2006, 11:50

  21. "nor do I like football"


    24 Apr 2006, 13:38

  22. I love football, does that mean I'm breaking down class boundaries? Or am I just thick? :*(

    24 Apr 2006, 16:19

  23. It means you're human.

    Everyone needs interests, it's ridiculous that people seem think football is a particularly unsophisticated one.

    24 Apr 2006, 17:40

  24. Hero mentioned

    raping rag-heads,

    Isn't that the sort of language used by rich right wing Americans? link

    25 Apr 2006, 11:14

  25. Hero

    Yes but MCers wh liked football are self-consciously truing to lose their class by pretending to like something working class… just like blur going to the dog track.

    26 Apr 2006, 15:36

  26. Sure I am mate geezer old feller.

    Maybe I just like it?

    26 Apr 2006, 18:52

  27. No Joe, only the working classes can like football.


    Hero, what definition do you use to deliniate "working class" from "middle class"?

    26 Apr 2006, 19:15

  28. Maybe the reason the BNP may be doing well in some Labour Area's s that they are actually to the left of Labour.



    Socially they're to the left of Labour, but they're alot more authoritarian than Labour.
    remember, just harking on about immigration doesn't automatically make you to the right. It comes down to more than that.

    28 Apr 2006, 14:41

  29. Sharif

    Some of the Conservative party members in Romford and Barking & Dagenham had indirect affiliation through colluding with politics of fear.

    Let me give you an example: We know Assylum is on the rise in Uk. The conservatives previously had bad press in relation to Race healines. Why should the conservatives raise the issue, where the BNP is doing the work for the conservative in east london.

    The Conservatives in east london and essex playing nasty politics. I used to be a conservative party member, but I'm very disullusioned with them for some time

    10 May 2006, 23:33

  30. andy williams

    I lived in Oldham from 2000-2004 when the BNP started agitating there. I ran a pub in the town centre and as a result had a good insight into local opinions. I also became involved with the local Oldham anti BNP group – Oldham Unite Against Racism.

    I think you are wrong and you greatly underestimate the BNP. They appeal to both traditional Labour voters from the white working class and they also appeal to thatcherite tories. They are as a party racist bordering on nazi, but that racism is just one dimension of them. The vast majority of their voters aren’t racist – it’s just that they agree with more BNP policies than policies of other parties and that’s why once they get a foothold in an area they are very difficult to break-down. In Oldham there were even muslim Asians voting for them because they supported no more immigration.

    Most voters are very disillusioned with the main parties. The parties themselves are seen as out of touch and the MPs as arrogant, over privilged and over paid.

    Personally I think this is the start of the disintegration of what is basically a two party system. I believe that in a decades time there will be more parties represented on Parliament and that we will from then on be run by a succession of coalitions.

    20 Feb 2007, 20:01

  31. Adrian Peirson

    Peter Sutcliffe, Fred West, Ian Huntley, Ian Brady, The Black Panther, the Dunblane Massacre.
    Michael Barrymore, Beverly Allet, Dr Shipman…..Damiola Taylor, Stephen Lawrence….

    What makes tha Papers…..

    Only |White AngloSaxons can be Murderers, Paedophiles, Criminals….Immigrants make much better citizens…..

    THe Govts of Europe, are Socialists, they know that the Europeans do not want Total Integration iont a Federalist Superstate so we are being wiped out….supressed….

    Wake up …
    Perhaps Peace in the Middle east and the Guarantee of Oil is to be achieved by the Promise of a Muslim Majority in Europe within 50Yrs.






    The emerging EU is a Police State…Further more it is Illegal,
    the Govt (nor the Queen) can transfer Sovereignty to a foreign power (The EU)....
    Magna Carta is worded so that this cannot happen, else it be Treason,.
    Parliament ‘accidentally repealed the Ttreasons act…..when it was slipped into a bill after having been read and voted upon
    Hiding the true Horror cause by clash of Cultures…..because the Govt does not wabnt Anything to stop the Eradication of Western European Identities, not even the truth…

    So determined are they that there wil be no going back that England is to be sliced into three Pieces, Those living in Southern coastal England will become part with Northern France called ArcManche, their New Capital will be…………………….Paris….


    27 Jul 2007, 08:47

  32. Adrian Peirson

    Wake up, before it’s too late….

    The Frankfurt School of subversion.
    The techniques are broadly based on the Frankfurt School, the University department bought
    by the Soviet Union in 1935. The Soviets asked it for the best methods of undermining other
    nations so it could bring them under its control. The EU has been implementing these techniques
    in Britain since the early 1960’s.

    The Frankfurt school recommends political correctness, the teaching of sex and homosexuality
    to children, the creation of racialism offences, continual change to create confusion, the
    undermining of schools and teachers’ authority, the promotion of excessive drinking, emptying
    the churches, an unreliable legal sytem with bias against the victim, dependency on the state or
    benefits, huge immigration to destroy identity, control and dumming down of media and TV, the
    attack on fathers and the breakdown of the family, and other methods, the results of which we are
    now all too familiar with.

    Political Correctness is a form of mind control to control free speech, to undermine public
    opinion, to weaken the defences of democracy and to ‘re-educate’ schoolchildren; it is a well
    documented communist subversion procedure.
    the smacking ban, preventing parents from controlling and disciplining even shoutuing at their children…
    These techniques have been remarkably successful at undermining local and national government,
    the Police, NHS, schools and children. It has alienated British people from our nation and its
    politics; millions are now disinterested and apathetic. On 13th Feb. 2007 UNICEF reported British
    children now have the worst upbringing of the 21 top nations.

    27 Jul 2007, 08:50

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