19 comments by 3 or more people

1. Grr at least you could go to Top B.

   Can't believe you missed rehearsal last night! A WO rehearsal without Juicy is just not right…

   That sounds like a poem…

   07 Jun 2005, 10:50

2. Carter

   Oh, this old chestnut again…

   Top B changed last term after complaints that people were sick of hearing the same songs week-in week-out. Consequently the new music policy is simply "Party Music", which is broader and more inclusive of EVERYONE's tastes (yup, even dance fans – though it should be noted that the addition of dance music to the playlist has proven one of the most popular new developments), as it's only fair that if people are coming to the Union's flagship event then it should be fully representative of what our punters actually enjoy, rather than tolerating through gritted teeth.

   Hope that clears things up – we do still play daft singalong pop, but just not the same stuff that's been done a thousand times week after week. Sorry if it wasn't what you were expecting but attendance has gone up massively since the changes were brought in and variety is the spice of life, as they say…

   07 Jun 2005, 11:26

3. Lucy Young

   Fair enough, like I said, it's probably just me not liking the changes (although I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses the Old Top B) and getting old and all that (don't worry, I'm finishing in 2 weeks I'll not be going anymore anyway as I'll actually have to get a job :-( so it doesn't really matter if I have a little moan)

   I did think the DJ's were a bit annoyingly loud and OTT. I did want a monkey though – that's quite a cool thing to do and I wish I could jump high!!

   I know Top B changed, I guess I just wasn't prepared for quite how different it has become! Personally I don't like it and won't be going again, but if it means more people go obviously that's good for Union revenue and means you can make more money and give us all better services etc which is great. (You won't miss me, I never spent any money at Top B anyway.)

   07 Jun 2005, 14:52

4. Lucy Young

   Sorry I missed Rehearsal Helen!! I felt very guilty about that. We did try and make it for the 2nd half but everyone was packing up as we got there!! You honestly wouldn't have wanted me sitting behind you because I smelt of Pond. The water rides at Drayton Manor don't have the freshest water shall we say! You would have had to face 3 very smelly Clarinet, Flute and Oboe players. To quote Stu 'Ooh you smell of pond'. Charming (although true)

   07 Jun 2005, 14:55

5. Carter

   I'm glad you think we're loud and OTT - that means we're doing our job properly!

   By the way, Queen and Chesney WERE played last night; try to keep up, love…

   And now read this: link

   07 Jun 2005, 15:14

6. Lucy Young

   Yeah well I missed them because by that point I had left. My head just couldn't take it any more.

   08 Jun 2005, 07:45

7. Carter, having read the blog you referred to in comment 5, I was interested in the following comment:

   "Minor point to bear in mind for future reference: going up to a DJ and simply telling him/her that what they're doing is "shit" is hardly likely to endear them to you or your cause."

   DJs are in the employ of the Students Union, and are hired to provide entertainment for the students. We are not required to endear ourselves to you, or in any other way to impress you, in order for you to take our views seriously. I'm sorry that you had to put up with abuse, rather than constructive comments, at the event you referred to on that page (not Top B).

   However, I too miss the cheese. I haven't been to many Top Bs this term, due to my finals, so I can't be sure whether or not attendance has "gone up massively" since the changes, as you suggest. I seem to remember Top B being substantially better attended two years ago, but I'm willing to accept that I may have misremembered that. I also recall a letter sent by a PHD student (currently in his 7th year at Warwick) to the Warwick Boar last term, regarding attendance at Top B being much lower than it used to be a couple of years ago, and also comments by another friend of mine in the 4th year who has said the same. The only other evidence I have to go on is the large number of people I know who used to go to Top B every week and who tell me that they now avoid it due to the new music policy.

   Of course, if there has been a decline in attendance, I accept that this may not be entirely due to the music policy. With cheap beer readily available in Costcutter, first-years seem to be leaving it later and later before they go on to the union, which presumably has an affect on attendance.

   Two suggestions follow from this:

   1. I'd be interested to see the results if some kind of survey of attendance were carried out to see if attendance has genuinely gone up. I don't mean an online poll where people vote, because that will only attract people with strong views on either side, thus missing out the middle ground (and therefore, the majority). I mean an actual head-count, based on the number of people 'clicked-in' by crowd safety at the door on the night. (Do we have the figures from two or three years ago?)

   2. Perhaps a new Cheese event should be created to replace what Top Banana once was. Maybe have it on a different night, or once every fortnight qua Soul Nation or Boogie Nights. I feel confident that such an event would be a commercial success, but the only way to know for sure is to try it.

   I agree with you that a "flagship union event" (if that's what Top B is) should be representative of a wide variety of tastes, not just cheese, but the views of those who want cheese shouldn't be disregarded simply because they may now be in the minority. Such an argument would lead to the cancellation of Latin nights, Jazz nights, etc.

   Finally, you made some comments on your blog about culture and broadening musical horizons by experiencing something new. I don't actually think that liking Top B is PURELY a matter of liking the music per se. That plays a part, but it's also a matter of knowing the tunes and being able to sing along with your mates, which a lot of people enjoy doing. In other words, it is an activity, rather than merely passive musical appreciation. I wouldn't pretend that Chesney Hawkes et al. is the pinnacle of culture, nor even close to it, but that's not why I go to Top B anyway. I go to dance badly, sing songs that we all know with my friends and drink! I remember the Top B catchphrase on union posters two years ago was: "If you can't sing it; we won't play it." This sums up what Top B used to be, and what many people such as Lucy and myself miss.

   08 Jun 2005, 15:39

8. Lucy Young

   Jerzy, you are a legend dude! I agree with you on all points (and so does Stu)

   08 Jun 2005, 18:15

9. I totally agree with Jerzy in comment 7.

   Who is to judge whether 'cheese' is a more or less worthy type of music than any other? It deserves, nay demands, its place amongst the canon of clubbing tunes.

   09 Jun 2005, 00:56

10. Jerzy = Legend!

    I am a first year, and i miss being able to sing along to every song (like Term 1).

    now, i might be lucky if i can sing along to 3 songs in a whole hour!!

    09 Jun 2005, 10:59

11. Carter

    All of which is true, and of course it has its place. But take it from me – "Cheese" as everyone seems to define it literally comes down to a list of about 50 or so key songs. Bearing in mind that we go through about 80 per night at a standard Top B, it doesn't take a genius to figure that if we were to simply peddle this type of music all the time, we'd be playing the same records week-in-week-out – which is exactly why people were getting bored of the old music policy, and why it was changed.

    Also, the slogan for Top B has now changed to "The biggest party on campus every week", and I would suggest that with a few notable exceptions (eg. when we occasionally chuck something new or really different into the mix, or play a couple of the more obscure requests we get in each week), if people can't dance to or sing the majority of tracks that we play during peak time, there's a serious gap in both their musical knowledge and their ability to enjoy themselves!

    At the end of the day we're not out to sabotage anyone's night by playing willfully obtuse music (pretty much everything you will hear at New Top B has been a Top 30 hit at some stage) – but what we ARE out to do is to play a wide range of party tunes which appeal to a vast range of people, and most importantly to KEEP IT VARIED week after week. If you were to look back over the playlists since we took over Top B last term (and they're up on the forums in the S.U. website for anyone who wants to see them), you'll see that this is what we've done consistently.

    Believe me, keeping everyone dancing while still striving for variety is a lot more difficult than you'd think, which is why we get so tetchy when people turn round to us and make out that we're failing at a job which, to be honest, the vast majority of people really couldn't do half as well simply on the level of having the sheer amount of music it takes to keep things interesting.The other key point to remember is that while certain tracks may not be your favourite song, they WILL be someone else's – so you'll forgive us for thinking that it comes down to people being rather selfish when they complain about the music not being tailored to their own individual needs. As you said, we're being paid to represent the views and tastes of the Student population – and although we DO still play a lot of cheese, it would be unfair to the large percentage of Union attendees who DON'T like it if we were to simply foist it upon them all the time just because that's what's easiest.

    09 Jun 2005, 11:21

12. Benjamin Keates

    50 or so "key" songs? I disagree with that. My collection of music on my computer is relatively small – somewhere in the region of 1600 songs (approx 6Gb); about 500Mb of that is contained in a folder entitled "Cheese"; a further 1.5Gb in a folder I entitled "General Chart Pop/Rock", in which about a quarter of the songs have been heard at the "old" Top B. Taking a rough average size of 4Mb for your average Top B track, (and accepting that not all of the music I have would be played – let's say about half would be considered acceptable, which is probably an underestimate) I make that approximately:

    250Mb
    +625Mb
    / 4 (per song)
    = 156.25

    So, even using my small collection as a basis for comparison, I'd suggest saying there were 50 or so "key" tracks is a heavy under-estimate.

    I agree with the comments above – while it's good to see Top B attendances back up, and to be fair I do have a good night when I go, I think bringing back in a "Cheese" night on a different night to Top B would certainly draw crowds – maybe a fortnightly thing on Friday or Saturday nights? There are more of us that love it than you think… :-)

    09 Jun 2005, 15:00

13. we'd be playing the same records week-in-week-out

    I thought the reason Carter and Tarbs were brought in was because the DJ would, at the start of Top B, play the same mixed CD EVERY WEEK! Exactly the same songs played every week in the same order. Regulars were starting to remember the order! Attendance dropped in the earlier hours of Top B. People arrived later and didnt stay for long.

    This is not the same as people not liking cheese, just that the punters didn't like the previous DJ who couldn't be bothered to work during the start of the night!

    09 Jun 2005, 15:12

14. Carter

    This "Cheese" folder on a hard drive… My estimate of 50 related to the ones that get asked for the most (or, as people are keen to tell us, those that are apparently "an institution" and ought to be played to death every week). Regardless, 150 or so tracks? That's roughly two weeks of Top B. So essentially you just get the same two events repeated 15 times a year, give or take a few changes in tracks. On top of that I'd guess there's probably a fair amount of repitition in that folder. Same bands doing different songs, for example – the same thing, ostensibly, just again and again, ad nauseum. Doesn't anyone ever get bored of hearing the same songs repeated over and over, or is it just me that finds this a bind?

    For the record, the majority of requests which come in at Top B are NOT for cheese. In fact, although of course there will always be a certain quota of it played at the event, many people are sick to the back teeth of it: look at the way The Killers absolutely lamped Chesney on the Midnight Pounder poll early on in Term 2. I'm afraid I've never bought the argument that Top B ought to be full of rubbish music (which is ostensibly what "Cheese" is, although of course it has its place, etc etc). Why? If people are coming to the Union, why should they have to settle for second-rate tat they've heard a million times every week just because it's the easiest option? There's also a hell of a difference between 'Party Music' and 'Cheese' – the former is way more inclusive and allows you a much broader range of songs to play (House of Pain's 'Jump Around', Green Day's 'Basket Case' and the Bomfunk MCs 'Freestyler' are hardly "Cheese" per se, but they each go off like a rocket every time).

    You can still sing and dance to at least 90% of what we play during peak hours each week, usually more. On the odd occasion that we'll throw something different into the mix, it's usually because someone out there has requested it, and to be honest they've got as much right to hear it as anyone else.

    Now read this! link

    09 Jun 2005, 16:11

15. Lucy Young

    OK enough already! All I did was say I didn't like the new Top B! I'm entitled to say that and I will keep saying it until the cows come home but please don't brand all of us who don't like the new Top B as close minded, ignorant or lazy. I do not sit and listen to cheese in my room all day long. At the moment I am listening to the rather fab Razorlight's 'up all night' album, which I certainly wouldn't class as cheese. My music collection is very varied and I happen to be going out with someone who has had radio experience and has a passion for good new bands and alternative music, as do I. He didn't like Top B either. The point I have been trying to make is not that we shouldn't take in new music and embrace alternative tunes etc, but that at Top B it's all about singing until you're so hoarse that you wonder if you'll ever recover for choir practice in time, and about recognising songs so that you associate them with your friends and the silly dances you all did when you hear them again. It's like at wedding receptions when the DJ puts on all the latest songs and nobody dances, but the minute you put the Beach Boys on you risk being crushed in the dash for the dancefloor! These songs may be cheese, but they hold a place in your heart, and you just want to hear them in the atmosphere of a party – which is what Top B, when full, really feels like. That's what I missed on Monday.

    09 Jun 2005, 17:02

16. Carter

    Well… okay then.

    09 Jun 2005, 17:24

17. This probably isn't the best time to wade into this debate because I've just got back from Mirage but I can't resist. I DJ around the country at events that are either equivalent to our Boogie Nights or Top B. I know how hard it is to DJ (especially a request based session) and that you cannot please everyone. However, I do take exception to some of the things I hear at Top B. As a DJ you're entitled to play what you like and let people vote with their feet. There is often a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of the general public of DJing skill, but it doesn't mean to say that everyone is ignorant and you can patronise them for the sake of it.

    I learnt my trade in a town full of clubs in competition with each other and if you were bad you got the sack. There is a compromise to be had between what people want to hear and what is varied and innovative. I think it is a dangerous game to lump songs into a certain category and dismiss them on that basis.

    In essence there are things I don't want to dance to. I accept that this will always be the case at the new Top B, and I'm sure that there are many songs that I want to dance to and others don't. All I would ask is that there are distinct sets where genres of music are kept together so that the people they appeal to remain on the dance floor. Also I think that excessive monloguing is a dangerous tactic and liable to irritate.

    People have to accept that Top B is now intended to cater for everyone. That means that people wont like some things, but then that's life frankly

    17 Jun 2005, 01:52

18. OMG, how can anybody complain about Top B? Cheese is great but not every song every week. Carter & Tarbit totally make the evening (even if they wont play babyckes). Lovin' the work guys, so sad to go but thanks for the memories

    20 Jun 2006, 20:07

19. Lucy Young

    Well maybe it's improved given it was over a year ago since I wrote that entry. I'm not a student anymore so I haven't been for the past year mainly because I have to get up for work the next day but to be honest even if I didn't it would take some serious persuasion to get me back in there unless I was with a load of friends in which case the music becomes less important because it's all about the company. I've probably just grown out of it. I think I prefer going to the pub!

    21 Jun 2006, 10:00

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