12 comments by 7 or more people

1. Umar Mohammad

   I think the its unethical,but that is only my point of view.It has a lot of cultural influence in it for example if it was launched in other countries such as UK,USA then people would boycott it, but it might be more accpetable by chinese people.Although I have nothing against china or chinese companies but this is not a rare example..Automobile & mobile phone industry are filled with such examples where it is extremely common to copy designs, user interface & various other technical things..However there are various example of the short term sight of such companies as they fail to promote innovatve culture within the organization & it also leads to a huge setback to organization learning.There are no shortcuts of developing sustainable organization culture, it takes time & efforts but the effect is long lasting….

   01 Nov 2009, 16:38

2. Doganay Toren

   Thank you for this good point for discussion. I can not say anything about ethics here because in my opinion it depends. Some companies don’t want their ideas or products to be copied but some companies want others to copy their products. If I was in a large company like Adidas, Nokia, Intel, Microsoft, etc… I would like other companies to copy my products or services. In my opinion; all copies are advertisements for the original one. :)
   So they can copy my product but they will just remind end users to buy my product. For instance; you said it Lavinia;
   “Lining’s ad moto is ””ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE””. I don’t know if you would also think the same as my friend that its logo looks like the tick of the NIKE, and the moto sounds like a copy of “NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE” of Adidas.”
   So When you see Lining’s ad; Adidas and Nike comes to your mind. We can add hundreds of examples here like; Sqny, Sonny, Nokta, etc…

   Every copy is a promotion process that has no cost for us.

   For the olympics; I can just say that if they really wanted to be the main sponsor believe me they would. I think they are going for their strength as always and becoming sponsors for individuals or countries.

   Cheers.

   01 Nov 2009, 17:18

3. Chung-Wei Yang

   To Umar,

   Ok. I know what you mean and I agree with you. However, think about this.So many companies are making similar products, how can you judge and say who is copying who? For instance, all chinese restaurants sell the same food, exact the same flavor, one opened 100 years ago, people all know about it. the other one opened just 2 years ago. but the flavors are all the same. I have 2 questions: 1. can you give a patent to the food and criticize other people steal the design? 2. what’s wrong with making the same products if they’re just creating what the customer wants? ex. customers want the same flavor, there’s a demand, somebody sees it, and start making the same stuff. but can you say they’re unethical?
   another example, there’re so many Indian restaurants, they all named ””Indian Cuisine Restaurant””, so…is that also unethical to copy that? coz they’re not giving another special name for the brand or the shop. you only know it’s indian cuisine, but maybe it’s the first indian cuisine in the world. yet you see that product later and you thought they’re copying somebody else… how do you know?? how do you find out and how do you judge if something cannot be perfectly clear?

   besides, what if Lining’s moto “Anything is Possible” is truly what the CEO wants to tell the world? are you gonna stop him doing it just becoz it sounds similar like “nothing is impossible”?

   another point: do you really think the logo looks like NIKE’s? what if Lining is trying to make it look like a wave instead of NIKE? are people suspecting too much??

   :D it’s a fun debate isn’t it? so many aspects to think about..

   01 Nov 2009, 17:32

4. Yu-Sheng Lin

   Well, for the example of food you addressed above, I would like to say this is the reason why restaurants and chefs never tell other the secret of their recipe. The idea of copy is too vague, in fact, there is no specific line between copy and not-copy. It depends on personal value. Therefore, instead of discussing whether it is copy or not copy, I would like to discuss the pro and con for the companies.
   Take Lining as example, what’s the benefit for them? They can be easily be linked to the international brand NIKE and Adidas, which certainly gain them some recognition. But it also takes risk, just like what Doganay mentioned above, you may giving free advertisement to your competitor. I think the only reason to do so, is trying to prompt the early revenue of the company; but after a period, they have to establish their own uniqueness to stand out from the crowd. Otherwise, other new competitors or Global conglomerate will again erode their market. (Unless it has higher product quality or much lower price to sustain their sales.)
   And for the NIKE and Adidas, they may lost some market share at beginning. But in the shoes industry, I don’t think it will have huge impact. And they got free ads from the competitors. For the product design, I do believe the companies have the pattern for their certain design or function. Of course, it is unfair for the company that they invest so much resource to develop a new product and their competitor just produce a similar one within months later and a slightly spending. But this is the cruelty of the business, the only protection of the product design is pattern.(But whether this law is being followed carefully is unknown.)
   I think to discuss the issue of copy, the point is whether it is pirate. I mean the brand or product design is just too similar and will confused consumer easily. For example, Jeans Sport/ Jaens Sports, which produces almost the same design of product, the intension of lying to consumers is so obvious. This not only will erode the Jeans Sport’s market share, also may damage its brand image as the consumer believer they are buying Jeans Sport, not Jaens Sport. Under this circumstance, I will definitely say this is unethical copy.

   01 Nov 2009, 23:56

5. Huiying Bian

   Very good debate everyone !!! I like it !!!! \(^o)/~

   As a chinese, I won’t deny that the lining has the suspect of copying. But, from my word, I will not call it copy. it is more like a successful simulation. I said that because I don’t think it is only about the unethichal copy of moto, symbol or design. The basic reason for such simulation is that the whole business mode is coming from western companies (eg. Nike).

   Lining, established 1990, is the almost the first sport brand chain in china. For Lining, it is impossible to make a totally new mode of business. The only way is to learn and, then, similated as quickly as possible. At the first stage, I think not not one chinese company experience such learn and simulation. Such process may happen in any developing country. I would not call it unethical. Building something based on nothing is impossible.

   Moreover, I don’t think, at least, the moto is just a copy. you may think it is suspecious. But the senten: “anything is possible” is the real thinking for most of chinese who went through the remarkable development in China. Every chinese have the same feeling when they read the “anything is possible” in Chinese word ”Ò»ÇнÔÓпÉÄÜ”. I think the moto is first based on the experience of Chiese rather than on coping other’s idea. But, I will also said that it is very tricky to use similar word compared with a global brand.

   02 Nov 2009, 19:21

6. Huiying Bian

   sorry for my spelling…

   02 Nov 2009, 19:24

7. Chung-Wei Yang

   Thank you Huiying for sharing, and never mind the spelling..it’s not important :-P

   and I agree with you. Coz i said the same thing to my friend, it can’t be totally fair to judge Lining coz what if “anyting is possible” is really what he’s trying to convey to the public. Coz I know Lining was a very successful athelete and won many gold metals for China. He deserves the respect especially he himself started in the same background—sport. I think it’s normal that he uses the similar techinique to advertise his company or brand. Because that’s the publics want, because that way…people will be interested.

   SO basically I think u can never stop or accuse someone else doing the same thing or sell the same product as you if you’re in the same industry and all trying to get the same market. that’s the competition! and that’s also why you need a USP-unique selling point—for your business/company! and at the end, customers will decide what they want and who they like better….. and even if you started the business earlier than anyone else, it doesn’t mean that you can stay until the last minute of the battle… you need to keep improving, attracting and working hard on keeping the market flow and the clients happy.

   On the other hand, if you’re afraid of people copying your product, GET A PATENT. :-)

   03 Nov 2009, 08:38

8. Elizabeth Knapp

   I was quite surprised to be told by my GCSE textiles teacher that it is standard practice for someone from a clothes company to fly around the world finding clothes that would sell well and tweaking the design slightly (to avoid trouble for directly copying), mass producing and selling these. As an individual, I like this as it means that the clothes I can afford to buy are quite nice. I think it’s unethical, but a fact of life. From a kid being copied by the boy sat next to them, to the successful business man, there will always be people coming up with good ideas and other people using them for their own gain. I like to think there is a give and take.

   In this case, will Nike or Adidas really be missing out custom to Lining because of similarities between mottos and symbols? People who have studied Buiseness or Psychology may be able to tell me otherwise, but when I bought some new running trainers the other day I looked for the ones most suited for my purpose and which felt best on within my budget. This turned out to be a brand I’ve never heard of and can’t recall the name of. Also these companies all stock products within the same shops (as in, there are general “Sports shop”s rather than “nike shop”s and unless a customer is particularily loyal to one brand, they will be comparing individual products (say running trainers) from the rival companies rather than the brands as a whole.

   04 Nov 2009, 20:18

9. David Schumann

   1. very good topic of discussion.
   2. the east asian market is living on the expenses of coppying all sorts of stuff. As the first writer said, it is not only about clothes. Cars are a good example. European, and especially German brands like Mercedes, Volkswagen BMW etc are suffering (example: “i drive” from BMW will soon become a regular part of some kind of toyota). Now, talking about innovation, although it might be true that many asian firms fail in their attemps to promote their artikel and go “broke” after some time, other firms, especially in the IT branch of the economy succeed and, starting with a copy, developp an innovative and new product. Well, dont you think its unfair if your basis, your researches (gererally where the money is consumed the most) are “stolen” and because of cheap working loans are sold to a price european firms cant compete with? Except for maybe for a better service, i dont see why i should by a dell laptop if i could get a toshiba with the same “qualities” for half the price. (by the way: that is exactly what i did :) )
   Now when it comes to copies beeing a good way of promoting the original product i think this might be true in a superficial way, but economically it is certainly a big concern for companies like adidas and nike, because the copy already established itselfs, showing the exact same values “impossible is nothing”, in the situated market; in this case China. Beeing the first in the market means that they take away western firms ability to promote themselves not only with copies, which by the way could become after a while a global rival, but with their own brand and in consequence expand and globalize. It is than more about missed oppurtunities than direct economic impacts.

   Cheers guys

   07 Nov 2009, 01:18

10. David-Alexandre Schumann

    Lavinia’s blog

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    9.
    David Schumann

    1. very good topic of discussion.
    2. the east asian market is living on the expenses of coppying all sorts of stuff. As the first writer said, it is not only about clothes. Cars are a good example. European, and especially German brands like Mercedes, Volkswagen BMW etc are suffering (example: “i drive” from BMW will soon become a regular part of some kind of toyota). Now, talking about innovation, although it might be true that many firms fail in their attemps to promote their artikel and go “broke” after some time, but other firms, especially in the IT branch succeed and, starting with a copy developp an innovative and new product. Well, dont you think its unfair if your basis, your researches (gererally where the money is consumed the most) are “stolen” and because of cheap working loans are sold to a price european firms cant compete with? Except for maybe for a better service, i dont see why i should by a dell laptop if i could get a toshiba with the same “qualities” for half the price. (by the way: that is exactly what i did :) )
    Now when it comes to copies beeing a good way of promoting the original product i think this might be true in a superficial way, but economically it is certainly a big concern for companies like adidas and nike, because the copy already established itselfs, showing the exact same values “impossible is nothing”, in the situated market; in this case China. Beeing the first in the market means that they take away western firms ability to promote themselves not only with copies, which by the way could become after a while a global rival, but with their own brand and in consequence expand and globalize. It is than more about missed oppurtunities than direct economic impacts.

    Cheers guys

    sorry if i put this comment twice, my computer is having problems…

    07 Nov 2009, 01:48

11. Chung-Wei Yang

    Quick reply to Elizabeth,

    I agree with you coz I think the products exist because the market is there… Brand products sometimes may give us myth or misunderstanding to be better products. Yet, sometimes low cost or non-brand products can be as good or even better.

    11 Nov 2009, 14:50

12. Chung-Wei Yang

    To David,

    First, I don’t really agree that east asian market is living on the expenses of coppying all sorts of stuff, you might wanna specify the countries you’re talking about? :-) As a Taiwanese, we’re pretty innovative if you check the world invention and patent application, Taiwan is on the top of the list!

    and IT products, it’s really difficult to judge coz many of those serve same function, and they are not something you can apply for patent all the time because they’re not so exclusive. Just like cars, car designs are extremely similar… No matter which brand, they all have similar apprearance. How can you define who’s copying who? Small cars like Mini cooper, Toyota Yaris, Sports cars like Mercedes SLM, Ferrari 599GTB Fiorano…Some of them look similar, function is similar, engine is similar… Isn’t the design hard to define who’s being more innovative? But still people choose the cars maybe not becoz the brand, but because they think the products are more suitable for them and the price is more likely affordable. The brand may make the car sounds totally different, but maybe driving them feels the same—AMAZING.

    at the same tiime, if Ferrari is best known for sports car like F1, and Mercedes’ sports car is less innovative? I don’t know if I’m making any sense here. Please correct me if I’m not.

    What I was thinking is, I probably wouldn’t buy Lining personally due to the unknown brand, but if they have good products, it means the same to the consumers. But brand afterall to me, is only a sense a trust and secure that I’m confident in the product that Im buying. Unless I’m being really loyal to the brand, otherwise, brand doesn’t mean anything to me, the products do. If that’s the case, what makes the big deal out of the whole copying? The world is full of same products or similar products everyday coz people ultimately want the same thing/ same products—nice car, nice house, nice clothes, nice shoes, nice jewelry…etc and who’s not copying at the end? Who can always be so innovative?? Maybe once in a while the market will have something creative like IPHONE/ IPOD changed the market like hurricane. But how many IPHONE or IPOD can be created over time?

    I think personally I do not appreciate that Lining is using a very similar logo like NIKE’s, but if that’s the way to succeed in Chinese market, to arouse people’s attention to the brand, maybe everybody would do the same…. isn’t it?

    11 Nov 2009, 15:14

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